tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-264558542891751159.post5626441084259892443..comments2024-02-13T05:15:36.680-07:00Comments on Tipping Pitches: Sports: The ProjectJon Loomerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02420522401874605250noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-264558542891751159.post-31676156153306076622010-02-20T15:32:57.658-07:002010-02-20T15:32:57.658-07:00Derek -- Maybe, but I don't want to prejudice ...Derek -- Maybe, but I don't want to prejudice my research by assuming it will be Ruth.<br /><br />Phil -- I agree with you, such analysis isn't easy and the general public is notorious for allowing emotion to cloud judgment when rating our finest athletes. That's why I am going to rely so heavily on stats. There are no "what if's." I won't be making any vague statements about someone's guts, hustle, or social impact on the game. This is all statistics.<br /><br />I wish you could see what I've got cooking in the back room right now. You may have more faith.<br /><br />By the way, I expect Ty Cobb to be near the top, if not the top. He is by far the most dominant player ever when it comes to batting average vs. the league average. Considering he had a long career, this is an amazing feat.Jon Loomerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02420522401874605250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-264558542891751159.post-17432392446311197472010-02-20T13:33:18.074-07:002010-02-20T13:33:18.074-07:00Looking back at this again, and I think, perhaps, ...Looking back at this again, and I think, perhaps, the hardest part may be removing emotion from the answer of "Who is the greatest baseball player?" Ty Cobb has only gotten a "maybe" so far, and I wonder if that's because we've grown up hearing what an asshole Mr. Cobb was. On the flip side, Babe Ruth had the likable personality and heroics like the Called Shot. And Willie Mays had The Catch. We eat up that stuff.<br />I've started looking up stats, and have been looking at baseball-reference.com. They have this 162 game avg line -- basically dividing career stats by career games played to give an "avg" year. It's interesting, so far, how similar an "avg" year looks from Williams to Ruth to Cobb to Aaron to Musial.phillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-264558542891751159.post-76134769746381499602010-02-19T09:58:48.735-07:002010-02-19T09:58:48.735-07:00Greatest offensive player? Babe Ruth and its not c...Greatest offensive player? Babe Ruth and its not close.Derekhttp://www.cyphertalk.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-264558542891751159.post-91144865494894075472010-02-19T09:21:46.748-07:002010-02-19T09:21:46.748-07:00Tough to argue with Ted Williams, Phil. I think if...Tough to argue with Ted Williams, Phil. I think if you look purely at skill, he'd likely be the guy. However, keep in mind that I'm only looking at statistics. So my analysis will not consider things like "toughness, the mystique, the flying of Marine planes over enemy territories." Or his frozen head, though that is pretty cool.<br /><br />He and others from his era will be handicapped by World War II. It's amazing, really, that Williams is still likely a top five candidate considering all of the time he missed. Though they missed time for different reasons, think of this analysis had Williams and Ruth not had any "what if" time without the bat?<br /><br />Thanks for the comments.Jon Loomerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02420522401874605250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-264558542891751159.post-42752435283812216232010-02-19T09:18:33.576-07:002010-02-19T09:18:33.576-07:00Greebs -- thanks for the comments. Looks like a ve...Greebs -- thanks for the comments. Looks like a very good list. I actually gained more respect for Ty Cobb's (physical) achievements when taking a closer look at his stats recently. He was a dominant player, and a dominant player for a long, long time. I actually expect Cobb to be on the very short list. I'd be surprised if he is not in the final three or four. In fact, he may even be #1. We'll see though.<br /><br />You make a good point about A-Rod and Pujols. I should run some numbers on them just for fun because I'm curious if their gaudy numbers hold up when compared to their peers. I still expect them to be great, but I wonder if they are suitable for the "best ever" discussion.Jon Loomerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02420522401874605250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-264558542891751159.post-4165783172680414122010-02-19T09:05:37.863-07:002010-02-19T09:05:37.863-07:00Wow, some great comments! Love the feedback.
slxc...Wow, some great comments! Love the feedback.<br /><br />slxception: Trust me, it hurts me more than anyone to take away the steroid consideration. However, I think it's necessary for the purpose of this analysis. You go down a slippery slope when you start talking about who took what. Even so, I do not expect McGwire to be very high on this list. He is on the original 32, but only because he is in the top 10 all-time in home runs. When taken in context with his peers (and also considering his comparatively short career), his dominance and all-around play are comparable to Dick Allen. I know that sounds crazy, but I wrote a blog entry on that very subject.<br /><br />You bet, Shoeless Joe will be on this list eventually. While a great player, his short career will keep him out of immediate discussion.<br /><br />Note that I will focus on statistical impact only. So while I agree with you on Babe Ruth and Jackie Robinson, I will not be making any "what if" statements. Ruth may be #1, but his stats will be handicapped by the fact that he wasn't a full time hitter immediately in his career (he'd certainly be considered the best "baseball player" in my book). Jackie Robinson, when looked at purely statistically, is still a great player, but his short Major League career will force him to be listed lower than one might otherwise expect.Jon Loomerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02420522401874605250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-264558542891751159.post-62670436061829772902010-02-19T01:44:46.786-07:002010-02-19T01:44:46.786-07:00Without researching numbers at all, I'm voting...Without researching numbers at all, I'm voting for Ted Williams. The toughness, the mystique, the flying of Marine planes over enemy territories, twice. The .400 season. The career .344 BA, and, primarily, the high combo of career BA and HRs.<br />Plus, a nickname like The Splendid Splinter?!?!! And the possibility his head was frozen?<br />All tremendous. Would you send anyone else up to bat if you had a choice?phillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-264558542891751159.post-31278123213134026192010-02-19T00:59:18.667-07:002010-02-19T00:59:18.667-07:00I've never known what to think of Hornsby so I...I've never known what to think of Hornsby so I'm taking a pass on him - aside from him, I think whatever analysis you use, as long as it's decent, should yield a final contest among these guys, in no particular order:<br /><br />Ruth<br />Mays<br />Bonds<br />Williams<br />Aaron<br />Musial<br />maybe Ty Cobb<br /><br />Anyone else there would really suprise me. And honestly, I break it down like this:<br /><br />Babe Ruth to Ted Williams to Willie Mays to Barry Bonds. <br /><br />I also suspect that in 15 years or so, Albert Pujols and Alex Rodriguez will deserve to be in this discussion.greebshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10945022888968961800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-264558542891751159.post-62228910634772353412010-02-18T22:54:45.738-07:002010-02-18T22:54:45.738-07:00You didn't mention Mark McGwire, did you? I ha...You didn't mention Mark McGwire, did you? I have a feeling if you mention him in your top 300 list, there will be an asterisk next to his name due to cheating. But of course, if you're not going to consider that, you will have to include at some point, "Shoeless" Joe Jackson in your list. <br /><br />Probably top choice has to be Ruth. Not only as he provided the stats offensively, but changed the era of baseball from the dead-ball to the live ball era. I believe he had a lot to do with the history of baseball.<br /><br />(Note, I'm not sure of Jackie Robinson's stats, but you may want to include him in your 300 list for his influence on the game.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com